RX Podcast_Lee M Weinstein: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

RX Podcast_Lee M Weinstein: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

John Shufeldt: Hello everybody and welcome to another edition of Entrepreneur Rx, where we help health care professionals own their future.

John Shufeldt: Hello everybody and welcome back to Entrepreneur Rx. This week, joining me is Dr. Lee Weinstein. He is the president of Core Smiles Consulting Group. He's also a former pediatric dentist and he was a Dental Director for the state of Arizona's Medicaid program. Lee, welcome to the show.

Lee Weinstein: Thanks for having me, this is exciting. I always have fun no matter where I go.

John Shufeldt: I thought. I like your attitude, that's a great attitude. All right, how did you get into dentistry?

Lee Weinstein: Ok, well, I want to apologize at the beginning because as a pediatric dentist, if I talk to you like you're in third grade, that's my level and.

John Shufeldt: I'm paid to do that anyway with me.

Lee Weinstein: And I'm from back east, so we speak quickly. And you know, and my wife is not here to kick me under the table to tell me to slow down. So bottom line is, I grew up in Philadelphia, went to Temple and St. Christopher's Hospital for Children and did my pediatric residency. But Temple undergraduate, Temple graduate did a whole mix of stuff. I was a history major, but at the same time in business minor, what before I was going to dental school.

John Shufeldt: You always know you wanted to be in dental school, be a dentist?

Lee Weinstein: Yeah. Now, maybe for the wrong reasons, I like working with my hands, I like working with people, and my mother and father had two cool cousins who I really liked who were dentists that talked me into it. It didn't have to talk me into to, you know, to difficultly. But they did, and they were great. They were good mentors.

John Shufeldt: So this is interesting. So you did something that was very prescient, that most of us, including myself, I was a sociology major, didn't do. You were, you were a business minor, did you do that thinking, oh, I'm going to run my own dental practice so I better get some business skills?

Lee Weinstein: Roundaboutly, yes. I did not know that we would never get anything in dental school. That was just a foreign world. Dental school gets no business at all and I lecture on that stuff now. But I thought at the time that I better learn a little bit about business to have some clue because my cousins basically told me at the beginning and again they were great mentors that you need to learn that stuff and you're not going to get it in dental school. I didn't realize that you really weren't going to get into dental school, and I learned a little bit from them. But at the same time, I figured, hey, I got to learn this somehow, because if I don't, I'm responsible. Not only am I responsible for myself, I'm responsible for the 20 people that I had to, you know, staff and my patients and the manager and the hygiene and all that stuff. And if I didn't understand that in English, I was screwed.

John Shufeldt: You know, it's funny because, you know, I can see it in medical school because, you know a lot of physicians go into hospital-based practices or what have you, or particularly these days, they're not in their own shingle. But at least dentists, back when you and I were going through this, I mean, you guys are all coming out with your, hanging your own shingle and doing this. You had to have business sense or it just wasn't going to work.

Lee Weinstein: And a lot of it didn't. And a lot of it, you're right, hung their own shingle out there, but they were small in-their-house offices or there was no advertising. You weren't allowed. You were only in New York, and in Philadelphia, you could have a quarter of an inch name outside and you could only put your name. It didn't have tooth doctor for kids or didn't have, you know, happy smiles or kids grins or whatever they were, you couldn't do any of that. That changed over time, obviously, and that really offended the many, many old-timers. But progress is progress. I don't like personally some of the commercials I see on television for, I'm coming from families of lawyers, so I don't like, you know, got run over by a car? You know, come to X, Y, Z, and we'll take care of you. Drunk? We'll take care of you, we'll get your ticket off. That's a little tacky for me. But if I didn't have some of that business acumen, not even acumen, if I can get some of that business stuff in there, I probably wouldn't know half of this stuff and maybe not have been as successful as I was or am.

John Shufeldt: Yeah, no, totally true. And it's, you know, a lot of, a lot of learning by mistake. You know, many of us did. But I think for dental, it's almost shocking that it's not at least how to run a practice isn't part of the school that you learn in dental school, part of the education that you have.

Lee Weinstein: Ironically, I took a class, I'm going to say, about five-six years ago on teaching and how to teach if you don't know how to teach. I had always been teaching, but a lot of these people, you know, those who can do and those who can't teach basically is that expression. But you go back to your school, in dental school there were a lot of people that were full-time teachers that had absolutely no clue about business or whatever, so we never got anything. So they asked us to put together a one-semester course, whatever that was, and how would we teach it and what was the curriculum and do all that stuff. So I sat down and I came up with a course on business, business practice administration, et cetera. And it turned out that it was, by the time I finished it, it was four semesters and we were going to start it each semester, four years. Each semester was going to be something different. It was practice administration course, but in a fun way. My course happened to be, we were going to split you up into teams of four and we were going to design an office, to go through a contract of an office, computerize an office, learn how to hire staff, learn about 401Ks, learn all the stuff that we never got. You were going to get this whole thing, you were going to name it, you were going to market it, you were going to brand yourself and do all that stuff together, and it would be a contest, so at the end of four years, everybody would have, every team of four would have a book, everybody would share everybody else's book, so they would have at least a guide to take out to the, to the real world and move forward. I used to also lecture when I would say that, I would say, hey I think people would come out, they sold a bill of goods today that says, hey go out and open up your own office, spend $500, $600 thousand dollars more and open up an office and patients will come. Well, that doesn't happen. Not anymore. And you're going to sit there and how are you going to pay the bills? You open up an office, you're overhead in the dental office, if you're efficient, is 50 or 60 percent. If you're not, it could be 80 percent. So you just spent, you could be spending $10 to $20,000 dollars a month with no patients. So where's the disconnect? Don't sell them a bulleted bill of goods. Some people have the money. You just spend $700,000 dollars in tuition, but you've got to think about it and you've got to work. I'd say, listen, go work at three or four different offices, the fillings and fillings and filling. We can teach in new techniques and all of that stuff, that's the easy part, the hard part is, what do you do? You know, how does somebody answer the phone? You know, my office was in tears because I wanted everybody to know their name and be comfortable coming into my office. And they were and we had contests and we did whatever else we were going to do. Pediatrics, whether pediatricians or pediatric dentists are tuned in differently, I think we're connected differently. Then, you know, I go to my doctor now and I love my physician and my GI guy, and as we get older, I just realize when I went to the doctor last week, we won the Civil War because the newspapers and the magazines were so damn old, you know. So you don't, you don't know what you don't know, and you're going to learn some of those things by working in other offices. People will come to you because they like you. They hope that you do a good job, if you have a decent bedside manner, that helps. If your staff has a decent bedside manner, that helps. You organize yourself that way. In my opinion, that's a tortoise and the hare. I could see 100 hundred patients a day and make X amount of dollars and ninety-eight won't come back. Or I could see 80 patients a day and sixty-eight will come back. I want a long-term growth and goal, and some people are just there, in Medicaid they just want them to come in, fill a chair, do what they have to do, get them out and move them out. They don't care. So I think doctors and dentists and podiatrists and I think chiropractors are more tuned into business than we are, I think, that sounds horrible, I think they go to school for four years to chiropractic school, I think they learn how to do chiropractic in two months and three and a half years is all business. You just look at them. You go to the chiropractor, sounds horrible, you go to the chiropractor, you're miraculously done when your insurance runs out. Well, you're all better. Ok, I have to come, now it's two hundred dollars an appointment, I don't think so, I can't afford that. Sorry, my little sarcasm comes out, so.

Lee Weinstein: I completely agree with you, so, so are you, and your right. Pediatric dentist are cut from a different cloth, and I've met a bunch of them over the years, and you guys are all a little, a little different, but a different in a good way. So did you ultimately sell your practice?

Lee Weinstein: Yeah. Well, when I left New York, I got tired of the winters and we were like the Beverly hillbillies. So my wife and I said, OK, we didn't grow up. I grew up in Philadelphia. She was North Jersey. We ended up on Long Island and we said, there's a better place for us I think to live than New York. And we love New York and I had three girls at the time, I still have three girls, and we just said there's more to it. It turned out that my accountant that I met at a meeting in 1980 based out of Dallas. And he was a mentor because they know their stuff. You know, they end up, it was a big group and then they split, and I used this guy in Dallas, and we had talked about going to Dallas. My accountant being there was just as easy to talk on the phone, we didn't have Zoom, but just talk on a phone or go there once a year to do financial planning, do, you know, build practice administration and things like that, and I learned a lot from him and we moved on and we said, you know, we like Dallas and we were going to move to Dallas and we ended up in Scottsdale just because it was a better opportunity. They opened up reciprocity and I said, OK, let's go. But I had two practices. I taught at LI Jaya Hospital for 20 years, I ran a pediatric portion of a general practice residency in other hospital, I taught at a dental school, I ran all over the place and I loved it, and I just had two offices and I said, you know what? No, there's a little bit more to life than that. Let me sell those two offices. One of my residents was working for me. I sold that office first and I had a partner in my other office. And when we found an opportunity out here, we said, let's come out here and sort of relax and do what we need to do. And I worked out here for a bunch of years and then sold that practice.

John Shufeldt: So you have you've had basically three exits.

Lee Weinstein: Yes.

John Shufeldt: Three different offices, that's amazing.

Lee Weinstein: Yeah. And like when I first started, I worked at five or six different offices. You know, it was a day here, a day there, I would get in the car and I was like, oh, where the hell am I going? And there were days that I would go this way instead of going that way, but I learned a lot. The first, one of the first offices I worked in, they were panky philosophy people. You know, it's the cross of life and balance and all of that stuff, but a lot of it was business and I learned a lot in that office. I picked up the first couple of years, I picked up what I like, what I don't like, what I might do, how I treat people, how I don't treat people, and I did that as I was building up my own office. So we started out in a small, I rented space from a prosthodontist, which we had no conflict, and it worked out, it worked out well. So I was there two days a week and I work in, you know, different places all over the place and learning what I could, taking my CE classes. And I tell everybody when I lecture, you know, you can take your CE classes, you've got to take 40 percent of your CE classes in business, in practice administration and find the right mentors that you like. I may like you, John, and you may be a great mentor, but someone else may say, I don't really like him, and there's a guy out in dentistry who, dentistry and sort of practice administration, Rayburn Lottie who's a great guy and we're using, we were using loops and doing stuff that people weren't doing twenty-five years ago, and now that everybody does. I'm not taking credit for that, I ended up going to those courses and learning. So not only were we learning technique, but we were also learning business. And you meet people and you take those, I belong to a practice administration group in, which was a great group in Valley Forge in Pennsylvania. And even when I left Philadelphia and moved to New York, I would come back. It was once a quarter and it would be a whole day meeting and they were phenomenal meetings and I learned a hell of a lot from there and I always lecture now. I said, listen, you don't have to invent the wheel, you steal it and you steal two wheels and you combine the two wheels together to make your own wheel. No one's going to fault you for that, and that's what you need to learn. Then you have to learn, like I said before we had this story, I ended up taking this course for how to teach because most teachers don't know how to teach, especially physicians, chiropractors, dentists, we have no clue. So I took this course, and part of the course was a five-day beginning, and then there were three months in between, and then we came back for the other five. And we had projects to do, and it was all teaching and learning how to educate and come up curriculums and things like that. So we had to design a course for one semester, which I did. I sat down and said, what do I want to teach? And I said, OK, well, everybody knows the techniques and no one knows anything about business. So I'm going to sit down and come up with a business lecture and create a semester's worth of business course. And as I started writing all of these things down and just that the bullet points, computers, design, branding, everything, I said, OK, oh I can't fit this in one, one semester, so I ended up creating a four-year course. And what we did was we put teams of four or five together. Each student group was responsible from a start to a finish, start up a business, go through the business processes, and then sell the practice, so that way they would learn a little bit of everything. So it was starting up, you were marketing, you were branding, you were coming up with a name, you then got the office space, you had to negotiate a lease, you had to figure out who your attorney is. You know, I'm not going to a malpractice attorney to learn how to buy a practice, and I'm not going to certain other people to learn how to do things that's not within their realm. The accountant that was going to do your financial plan and I say, I lectured, do you want to work at age 70 because you want to or because you have to? So there's a major difference in that. I wanted to work because I wanted to work, which was great. There are too many people now. If you look at it, this information that's out there now, 50 percent of the dentists don't have retirement plans. I, yeah, my kids yelled at me because when they were 16, my big one, when she first started, I said, OK, she got her tax return back and she got like $700 back. I said, her name is Maddie. I said, Mads, you're going to give me three hundred dollars and we're going to put it in an IRA and we're going to let it sit there. And, you know, life goes on. And they argue, she argued for ten minutes and then she said, OK. She's now thirty-two. She just told me the other day that she was basically stupid, she's pregnant, we're going to be a grandparent for the first time. So she said, Daddy, I finally realized that you were correct and I should have put more away in my 401k now than I did seven years ago when I started this job. And she goes, now her husband is about sixty thousand dollars ahead of her. She goes, I don't regret anything. He put his away maxed. He maxed out, but he never put anything away when he was younger. So she puts away, she goes, I actually realized that that made sense, so students don't know that. So taking that course was going to help them in doing that stuff. I've seen officers where they go, when they say, well, how come the plug is, the outlet is 16 feet away? Now, I learned a little bit from, it sounds silly, but my father-in-law was a real estate market consultant. He started the, he coined the term active adult communities and he did all the mark, he didn't build. He helped the builders build, come up with the project, the name, the design, and all that stuff. And his target market let's say we're seniors, and if seniors love the color purple and that's your color of practice and that's your population, then your practice or your house should be all purple. So when someone walks in, they go, oh my god. If you have high business, you know, Fortune 500 practice, nothing wrong with that, then maybe you should have computers that are there available for, and special rooms for those patients. So you design it based on all that stuff. And he would show us stupid things that people like regular builders that would build a house, they would have a door that opened up into the master bedroom that would hit the bed, a king-size bed, that would hit the bed, you can only get halfway through. Or have an air conditioning vent right over the bed. You know, silly things like that that no one thought about. So you as a new dentist have no clue. And you go to the design company and what is the design company? It's Henry Shine or it's somebody else that does dental sales and they say, you need this, you need this, you need this, you need and we'll design it for you. And they design it the way they want and they design it with their commission in mind perhaps. So, you know, you've got to think about all that stuff. So it took that course all the way to the end to doing your financial plan, to hiring staff, to firing staff, to getting it ... ready, doing whatever else that needed to be done, and then all of a sudden we have to go through, well, now you're ready to retire, or now I want to open up another office. Opening up other offices isn't always better. You know, there's people that have, I had friends that had six or seven offices and OK, they're juggling and I've worked for a few people here when I came, that had offices and they were on the stock exchange and things like that, and I just marveled. They had no customer service, they don't understand that. They had no idea that pediatrics will feed your general population. They had no idea that even if they didn't have that, that they should be knocking on the doors, general dentists should be knocking on the doors of pediatric dentists instead of the other way, saying, hey, one pediatric dentist goes and knocks on the door and said, will you please, please, please send me your kids and they're going to send you the kids that they hate, or are they going to keep the ones that they like, and I don't want them either, but they should be knocking on my door and saying, hey, please, please, please send me the two parents that come to my practice and I'll take care of them, I'll send you the kids because I'm sending you the kid that's worth three hundred dollars and me sending pediatric is sending the parents that are worth three thousand dollars a parent. And if they like you and I also sat down and said, hey, you know what, John, I like you, I think and I know you're afraid of this, this and this, and whatever it is, here are three dentists that I like that will be perfectly suited for you because we have, I know who you are. I'm not just giving out names, I'm giving out names that are based on what I understand from you. And then there that goes out, that becomes a reflection on me and that becomes a reflection on both teams.

John Shufeldt: Totally. So how did you do the Access job? Because that's a far cry from private practice pediatric dentistry?

Lee Weinstein: Well, that's true. As I was slowing down, I started to work as a consultant for one of the Access plans, Health Choice. And I was there, as you know, like assistant dental director for them for like two years and all of a sudden an opportunity, one of the guys that we work with left Access in general and said they were looking for a new dental director. So I said, all right, I'm going to apply. Ironically and really pathetically, I got the job and I ended up being the only pediatric dentist, and that has nothing to do with me, I was the only pediatric dentist in the country at that time, which was not that long ago, like 10 years ago, eight years ago, that was a dental director for a Medicaid program. Now, Medicaid is mostly kids. Ok, so there's 50 states. All right, throw Puerto Rico in there or whatever it is, you couldn't find 10, I did a lot of stuff with CMS and the government and did cohorts and did stuff with that, and I'm sitting there going, you can't find other pediatric dentists that would do that? So you now have a general dentist, you have a heart surgeon who's sitting there telling them what to do with, with little kids who have the flu. It didn't make sense. So I'm sitting there trying to educate these people on pediatrics and they go, wow, oh, that's what you do? I said, yeah, that's what I do. So I ended up doing that for a while, then it was changing of the guard in there, so I left after four years. My mentor and my assistant medical CMO, he was an attorney/anesthesiologist, but understood, and we bonded together. He was really a nice guy and we bonded together and he said, listen, this is what I want you to do. You take it and run, and we're concerned about the kids, but we also have to concern about dollars and cents. We have to understand what things are going on and how we're going to work with that. With seven plans and me being an overseer of seven plans that are independent and can do whatever they want to do, we had to sort of corral them all in. It took me two years just to get Medicaid to pay for fluoride varnish. Statistics say that by the age of two, if you have four applications of fluoride varnish on your teeth, the reduction of decay will be about 30 percent or more. And that pediatricians weren't allowed to do that. And we couldn't get the general dentist to follow the rules of dental home by the age of one, which is a simple, a simple mantra. You know, the AAPT, the ADA, AMA, all say find a dental home by one so we can prevent decay. Access didn't understand that, and I said, listen, you're going to pay these doctors who still didn't jump on board and from a dollar and cent standpoint, they would all complain. They would take a one container of fluoride that costs 80 cents, and in return I got them twenty-seven dollars reimbursement and they were asking, isn't the state going to pay for the fluoride varnish? I said, are you nuts? I said if someone gave me.

John Shufeldt: 80 cents.

Lee Weinstein: If someone gave me 80 cents to put in a slot machine every day and I was going to get twenty-seven dollars back, that's all I would do, is go to the slot machines and play the eighty-seven cents or whatever. And we finally said and I said, do you realize that if we do this, that we will be saving, Access and Medicaid will be saving money because we will be preventing decay? There's fluoride in the water here, but no one drinks the water because it's so bad. So everybody drinks bottled water. So pediatricians don't get that. It's all business. And if we don't educate, and a lot of the dentists don't get it. World Health Organization finally recognized that you can use silver diamond fluoride which will arrest decay and or fluoride varnish. The World Health Organization's been around for eons of time, and now they're coming to the point where they say, oh yeah, wow. 10 essential health benefits from the government from Obamacare. 10 essential health benefits. Dentistry is one of them. Teeth are one of them, but it's not mandated. The other nine are mandated. Teeth aren't mandated. And don't you understand that teeth and bodies go together? I post on one hundred websites, no like 12 websites, all the time about nutrition, I don't put cases on anymore because people who put cases on are just showing off their cases, you know? Ok.

John Shufeldt: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, as we are starting you know in the emergency with shifts, just horrible teeth and some of it's meth-related, but a lot of it just poor hygiene.

Lee Weinstein: Yeah.

John Shufeldt: And what that leads to? I mean, it leads to, I mean, just the whole spectrum of multi-disease, multiple diseases and vice versa.

Lee Weinstein: Yeah, periodontal disease. Why do you pre-medicate? Because the bacteria from your mouth, which is horrible, was going down into your chest and you were going to get, you know, a heart issue. They're just doing a new test on, on the severity of saliva and the severity of your cases on kids with COVID-19. They'll be able to test the saliva and tell you how severe the case may be. So the mouth, and the physicians don't get that and they're too busy doing stuff, you know, or they say they're too busy doing stuff. And a lot of it is, but that's OK. You don't have to do it, then refer it out.

John Shufeldt: Yeah, that's true. So then you moved into consulting.

Lee Weinstein: Yeah.

John Shufeldt: So was Pediatric Dentistry, head of Medicaid, Access Program for dentistry, and now you're doing consulting. Tell us about that.

Lee Weinstein: Well, the consulting is fine because you know you get me here. Once I start talking, I don't stop. So I go on and help the offices sit there and go. They don't understand pediatrics, I get both, but many officers don't understand pediatrics, so they'll call me in and say, listen, can you take a look at this office? Can you help us? Most don't understand the simple stuff. It sounds so silly, but putting a cup, we did this years ago, having a Keurig in the machine, in the office, which is benign, it's stupid, but people go, oh my god. People come to our office and just come to our office just to get the coffee. They would stop by, which was great, you know? Oh, you have chocolate fudge, OK? So docs would call in and new students would call, and you know, I mentor them and I sit there and go, hey, you know, let's start at the beginning. Go to Nordstrom's and see what customer service is. Go to Lululemon and walk out of Lululemon. You bought three things that you didn't want to buy. Well, why was that? My daughter, the big one, her major in school was consumer sciences and retailing. She went to University of Arizona and it was one of the only few schools in the country that have that. And you know, basically it's how to get people to buy things they don't want to buy. She's now a buyer, she and her husband are buyers for Dick's Sporting Goods. I mean, we laugh at it, but there's a design to it, there's a whole process to it, and there's a method to the psychology of all of that stuff. They did studies that say, hey, television shows that begin with the letter K like Kojak or Krazy or whatever did better in the ratings for some reason. There's all that psychology, and a lot of these people don't get that, and some of the consultants are out there are horrible. I sold my practice out here and this woman hired. I said, listen, I'll sit, I'll come to the office for free, I'll sit there for three months, I'll put a dress and lipstick on if you want, because I want to make sure that these patients that I've cultivated for the years are taken care of. I liked her, taking care of. She ended up hiring a dental consultant that came in, and the first thing the dental consultant said is get them out of the office and redecorate the office and tell the staff that basically, the consultant said, well, this new doctor has no money, so don't expect raises and be happy that you're here and within, I had like 10 staff, and within three months 8 out of the 10 left. You know, that's not a consultant, that's doing a good job. You know, something's there. Even if the staff was horrible and they weren't, you can't get rid of them for a while.

John Shufeldt: No.

Lee Weinstein: And I had patients that would come to me, and I saw some people on the street say, oh, I miss the office. You know what happened to this? I'm so friendly with my office manager who helps me out with the business aspect, some of the stuff, and she'll go to the offices when we need that and she'll consult and say, hey, look, this is what we need to do. So I started doing that and then I went out to help out guys from One Smile, smile brand and they said, listen, we want you to go take a look at seven offices that we're thinking of buying up in Sacramento. Will you go take a look? I said, sure. I went with a general dentist and myself, and we spend four or five days going through that and saying, hey, you got, I said, I don't know what you're paying. We looked at the numbers, we looked at the charts, make sure that everything was fine. But we said, hey, here are 20 things that you could do to increase your business, from customer service to adding new services to redesign without, changing some forms, you know, maybe making a uniform change or whatever it is. Do all that stuff and then that practice, those practices are worth the money. You know, at the beginning, it's not, you're, I don't know what to pay in, but you're probably overpaying. And here are the 10 reasons that we found, which is great. If you come back down and you negotiate it back down and say, OK, then you implement that stuff, you have no orthodontist in the office. Well, you know what? You're crazy. You have seven offices. Why don't you have one orthodontic or two orthodontist offices separately? It wasn't a brilliant revelation separately, and you could send them to there. They can also get referrals from someplace else, but you've got seven pediatric offices that are that are funneling into two orthodontic offices. Sedations, you know, centralized open up an ambi-surge. And if you open up the ambi-surge and you have seven offices that are in there, that's your ambi-surge. You maybe hire a doctor to do some of that stuff. You know, there's all kinds of stuff that you got to look, general dentists have no clue. And again, I hate to think outside the box, but I hate that term, it's like kale in other words, I just can't stand those things. You know, it's time to stop thinking. Just think and try to understand what the customer or the patient is going through and how you can best suit them. If that does it, they go out and tell thousands of people. You know, it's not that complicated. You know, brand yourself, do yourself a good job, but look at it. So I like doing that going into the offices and sitting in the office and saying, hey, for 3.99 go buy some flowers. We're not, it has nothing to do with the work that you're doing, but it's the appearance which is a major aspect of it, I think. Sorry. My chair is.

John Shufeldt: Lee, if people want to get a hold of you for consulting or otherwise, what's the best way to do it?

Lee Weinstein: Oh, they can give me a call on my cell. 480-323-0240. I answer. If I don't answer, leave a message, or my email is dafko@aol.

John Shufeldt: We'll post that in the show notes as well. Lee, it's been a real pleasure. You are entertaining as hell, and I'd say wise beyond your years, but you're very wise.

Lee Weinstein: How old are you John?

John Shufeldt: Sixty-one.

Lee Weinstein: Oh, I got you by six. Ok. And where'd you grow up?

John Shufeldt: Chicago area, then suburbs and then Phoenix for 30 years. Well Lee, I will post all the notes in the podcast blog and including your contact information for those who want to consult. It's been a pleasure having you on this, and I will certainly be catching up with you.

Lee Weinstein: Hey, let's go for a coffee one day.

John Shufeldt: Sounds good.

Lee Weinstein: All right. A pleasure, John. Have a good one.

John Shufeldt: You, too.

John Shufeldt: Thanks for listening to another great edition of Entrepreneur Rx. To find out how to start a business and help secure your future, go to JohnShufeldtMD.com. Thanks for listening.

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